advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formattingadvantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting

When you ask about table type content with css do you mean using css to show tabular data or are you asking more about how to style tables? Im surprised this debate continues, though admittedly Im continuing it right now after the question was raised on my small business forum. You can make css work with IE and it really isnt hard. I know there are workarounds. You pointed out that table cells dont work independently. Ive linked to this article in a post as part of a project Im doing on web design styles. I did list the seo benefits under the heading Myths. And I never use some software package to do it for me unless I wrote that package myself. Tables should be used when a bunch of blocks need to depend on each other, like maintain the same height, or to cooperate in filling their parents width. It was easy to do, and it looks great in Opera, Firefox, and Chrome, but guess what?! I agree with you about css3-grids. Learning to write CSS layouts bucket be tricky, especially if you are usual with using tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. If you need a table that should span the entire screen (full-width), add width: 100% to the Divs are more flexible. I dont even have a copy of IE to work with. Any one which have basic knowledge of programming can easily lean JavaScript. The flexibility is in your html structure. How to identify unused CSS definitions from multiple CSS files in a project ? Dont worry Im not taking your questions as a need to defend css. Using css to layout a site is the most difficult part, but it does come together with a little practice. 2)Less code?No.Comparably,table-based websites are having much less lines of code to write.Because,you are also writing the CSS,and its always not one file.So,code is much much less. Specifically, it would take more than one div to create a row cell structure so when you need to display data in that structure its actually exactly the same amount of html whether you use a table or nested divs. There are some new things on the way with css3 too that will make working with divs/css even easier and more flexible. This process allows me to offer fixed price websites without a lot of risk that Im going to have to eat a lot of hours resolving cross browser compatibility issues. Laying out a site with divs has a learning curve. After making the changes we need to confirm the compatibility if they appear. The times when floating blocks are more appropriate to use, besides its original intended use of having text wrap around images, is specifically when the blocks are meant to be independent from one another. Im thinking something in the way the code was set up is preventing that from happening. So if you feel strong emotions regarding CSS layout, dont respond. Itll be interesting to see how it develops and also what kind of browser support it gets. Home / Blog / CSS / CSS vs Tables: The Debate That Wont Die. If I misinterpreted that I apologize. My point is that there are other ways to achieve this benefit. By a few I mean less than 5. Thats easy. Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of using a table and CSS formatting for displaying the fitness centers hours and fees on the website. Required fields are marked *. Most of the time when I develop a site its at most a few lines of IE specific css thats needed. I am currently a consultant with an enormous company that forces us to support IE6. To suggest that the purpose of divs is to use block rendering contradicts the argument that tags should have semantic meaning and not display meaning. Not doing something because it takes time to learn is laziness.. Divs cant do what tables can as simple as that. Some might argue that the content search engines see on the page is more important and through divs its easier to present a different order of content to visitors and search engine spiders. The key issue is not to use tables for the layout of your site template. The order and nesting of the divs matters. Thanks Craig. I understand people have old code and sometimes they just need to fix it. Good Article and a lot of gold in these comments. You do have to put in a little time to learn how to layout a site with css, but once learned its not hard to do. CSS, CSS 2, CSS 3 are often quite confusing. Its now moving on from the CSS methods that replaced tables and using CSS thats being written specifically to lay out sites. Its the kind of thing that might move you from #8 to #7, but not from page 5 to the first page. Why does anyone really care how something is put together? Table layout; Multiple-column layout; Each technique has its uses, advantages, and disadvantages. but i do straight apps, nothing pretty.. data-driven stuff. You are here: Like I said the debate the wont die. Anyway, the real reason I wanted to comment here is because I think it is hilarious that Ive been reading people bashing table layouts and saying they cant stand any website that uses tables, then I view the source code and they are commenting on a page that uses tables! It wasnt my intention. I cant tell any discernable speed difference between a table layout and a CSS layouts load time. I can bring myself to use tables, but css severly restricts my deisgns because of cross-browser compatibility. You can definitely hire someone to create a template for the site if you want. I will need to learn more about how to use cssdiv to do a page layout. Sometimes they write for things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form. Let me apologize in advance because what Im about to say may come across as harsh. If you are designing using CSS for layout, cool! Back in 2003, I gave my presentation, Why tables for layout is stupid, at Seybold (http://blog.hotdesign.com/2008/10/what-is-css/) about the advantages of CSS layouts. All you really need to do float the customer service phone number and search form to the right. What Im trying to figure out is the benefits in using CSS for LAYOUT. I also dont have an issue if you want to use them to display a list of links in a menu. Web designers who take the time to learn css dont have the same problems youre seeing. A 10 MS difference is meaningless. The web developers need to test for compatibility, running the program across multiple browsers. Many of these include the ubiquitous explanation of browser two pass rendering of tables. As a web designer I spend the vast majority of my css time finding work around for IE and sometimes other browsers. (Dont laugh, my skills probably saved my job.) Two common formats are: Key-Value pairs fast read and write but not optimized for lookup. It has the power for re-positioning. Both Fixed and Variable database extents can only be larger than 2 GB when largefiles are enabled with an Enterprise Database license, the OS is enabled for largefiles and user quota/limits allow. If table tags were called tags, nobody would be complaining, and there would be no ongoing debate. The industry is now moving again toward a responsive design workflow. Early on you had to use tables to layout a site well. WebJavaScript advantages Fast speed: JavaScript is executed on the client side thats why it is very fast. Justin, apparently I named this post well, since the debate never seems to die. Ive done that for people before. Chris your first comment seemed to indicate you preferred tables over css. I avoid tables and table-cell in almost all layouts to avoid ridicule, but deep down I truly believe that anything else is convoluted and meant to create more jobs for web developers. Over the past few years Ive been slowly converting them to divs and CSS. The fact that order matters even with divs invalidates a lot of the arguments table haters constantly throw out, but considering were trying to layout documents in the first place, it makes sense that order matters, otherwise the whole semantics argument would be totally out the window too! And, then I can see what theyve done with the code as far as CSS goes. I have designed the following sample homepage for a client: I come from a developer background and am now working as an SEO consultant (I know, Boooo and all that) so I am definately an advocate of divs and I have to disagree with: Search engines dont care one bit if the code behind your page uses tables or divs. There are plenty of easy ways to create equal height columns in css. The first thing we need to do is sort out the spacing/layout default table styling is so cramped! Having done programming I understand reusability of code and the ease of making changes in one place for large websites, but this is little good with small sites. This post isnt a tutorial so I would need to know which one or ones youre referring to as well. In theory, CSS is the answer, the problem is that the way browsers deal with SOME of it is not only not standardized, but can actually have the exact opposite result for example position: absolute can cause a column to move to the left in one browser and cause it to move down in another, and cause it to move up in yet another. WebCSS is clearly preferable in cases where presentational markup and CSS support the same kind of design, no one in their right mind would argue that font-tags are better than I cant go selling a 10 MS speed advantage to anyone and expect them to take me seriously. Home. Tables are simply not faster to create. Ive been doing web design since the beginning of the internet as a hobby and now professionally and I like a combination of both worlds. You can either explicitly set the values when browsers are behaving differently or use a css reset file like the ones from Eric Meyer or Yahoo. Also, Ive found no help in trying to figure out how to replicate the effect of a table layout where certain cells are merged. If youre constantly having to fix old code though, I would recommend looking into the feasibility of redeveloping the site. Unfortunately, by using tables I think increased load time and perhaps SEO unfriendliness of my code are stumbling blocks to my future success as a web designer. That is true, but you can have all your presentation in a separate css file while having a table-based structure to your html. In its simplest form were comparing: Even in the simplest case above you can see tables are already a more complex structure than divs. Columns of equal height? Do I have to have a separate div for each line? They impose a more rigid structure than divs. With equal column heights, yes its easier to create them with tables than with divs alone, though if you look at the last of the 4 methods I described youll see its not hard to create them with divs and css and it still uses less code than using tables. My process doesnt involve spending hours resolving cross-browser compatibility issues by the way. Also anytime you come across a site with a layout you like copy the source code and when you have time study it to see if you can understand how they did what they did. True. With the 4 methods youve got the only that really comes close is the last & it requires more code. This argument usually includes the time taken to learn to use divs, which isnt a fair comparison. Using isnt semantic and isnt CSS. Could you send me a link to the page? By understanding what each layout method is designed for you'll be in a good position to understand which method is I try making 100% css layouts and they never are cross browser effective, so I resort back to tables and I never have issues. Ive been studying the Eric Meyer CSS books, so I am picking up CSS quickly. With the 4 methods if its important to a site to support older versions of IE then sure dont choose the method which might not work with those versions. Very interesting information. 2) Faster Load Times Because of Lighter Code I remember load times being a major issue when I first got started but it doesnt seem to be the case anymore with so few people on dialup. As I see it, table layouts have precisely two advantages: 1. I dont want to use tables but Im finding it harder and harder to justify not using them. Your text should reflow with changes. Maybe I just havent searched the web enough. And all of this is absolutely hilarious when you attempt to make it work in multiple versions of IE and every other browser, let alone on an iPad or iPhone. As far as the speed issues, Google didnt really talk about load times affecting ranking until after I wrote this post. Just because you didnt get it working on your site, dont blame css as though you cant build a site that works across browsers. Artificial intelligence design advantages: How can AI help to design? Spanish is a beautiful language that many people use to communicate quickly and effectively each and every day. To remove double borders, take a look at the example below. My biggest concern is if I can design the following website designs in CSS. Youll compare each of the arguments against another based on relevant data. However please dont imply that css cant work for old sites or makes it more difficult to work on an existing table driven site. I really resented (and it sounds like many of you do too) all the time I had to spend to get a site to look as it was intended for ALL users. This is why divs arent superior for layout coz they cant even do what tables do out-of-the-box even with all the complicated different solutions people have invented to try and get close. Now lets get to some of the myths on both sides that keep this debate going. 1. Tables will get you on the air with display compatibility quickly and with confidence. Really? Learning at write CSS layouts can be tricky, especially if you become familiar with usage tables, but here's why CSS is your best programming bet. Mark your site would be very easy to code with a css layout. CSS instructs the display of the HTML on how the web site will display at the users end. To each their own in regards to tables. I dont agree with their reasoning, but it is there. No matter how many times I see this question or people making an argument on behalf of their opinion, the technical answer remains the same. IE sucks and makes my page look a pile of crap. Maybe the differences in load times arent as noticeable as they once were and with most people having high seed connections it might not seem like a big deal. 1) Easier Site-Wide Changes CSS proponents claim site-wide changes are easier with CSS because you change one file and boom, it changes on all pages. In fact your reply only makes it clear you dont know to build sites using divs and css. I think grids are great, but I dont think you should create them using html tables for the reasons I mentioned in this post. However, you can build a great site using tables and a poor site using css. Learning CSS/div coding seems a daunting task because they dont really know the code in the first place. Ive seen these performance claims for div over table all over the web, and many of them assert much faster, rather then simply faster. How to Play and Pause CSS Animations using CSS Custom Properties ? Sure you can say they just need to learn more, but sorry, they didnt. CSS (divs) requires too many hacks to work cross browser Entirely false. Both my table and div layouts use css equally. The performance claims Ive read about here and elsewhere on the web for divs over tables are over-hyped I found only a 10 ms advantage for the div technique over the table technique. If I had stopped my study on the first day the table would have won by an equally small margin. In other words you havent taken the time to learn how to layout a site with css. I do think more code means more chances of making a show stopping kind of error. more flexible since one div is not dependent on the other divs on the page it allows for more freedom in your design, quicker to load blocks of code can be presented right away instead of the browser requiring an extra pass. Its often used as simple data storage, NoSQL. You cant pluck a single cell out of a table and move it somewhere else in the layout. Different levels of CSS i.e. I also believe the opposite, theres no point using table rendering if you DO want them to be independent. The phone number and search can either be wrapped together in another div thats floated to the right or they could each be floated to the right independently. WebUsing tables for layout means that changing the corporate layout will in fact mean changing every single page. Ive been using divs for a decade now and never once had to guess where the content would be. The only time I ever use tables anymore is to quickly horizontally and -vertically- oppose an image or something else on a temporary coming soon type page. The greater flexibility you can create with your structure and the maintenance advantages are the more important reasons. 4. But clearly there are many people who support using tables. And, if anything, those advantages are more pronounced now than ever. http://www.taylor-graphics.net/eye_clinic/css/index.css. Granted, CSS loads faster and for big websites is easier to maintain for large websites, but after trying to convert the newindex1 page from tables to CSS, Im having a very hard time understanding why CSS is better for small websites. Let me also add Im talking about using tables and nested tables for the entire layout of a site. I do think css is the better option, but feel free to develop sites any way you want. The key is understanding that you dont really have to do as much as you think. Im still using the spacer.gif to tweak spacing. As for your disadvantage I have to disagree. If they want to tweak something in the design, again, piece of cake to do. And heres what Im referring to you saying in your post: The problem most people have when learning to use divs is trying to force them to act like tables instead of allowing them to be what they are.. (Yes, I like clean code too.) Youll have more control over how your page displays with divs that can aid in how a screenreader sees your content, but again you can create equally accessible pages using either approach. It is easier with divs, but it can also be done with tables. If youre having to spend the vast majority of your time finding workarounds for IE then youve probably been doing something wrong. It still ends up being less code than you would use for a similar table based design. After-all the 3 column layout with equal height is referred to as the holy-grail in css, enough said! Many people are able to build sites using css as a layout and getting them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty. Oddly as grids become more and more in use theyre sometimes developed in a way that attempts to recreate a table using css. Appreciate it and I think this post being more recent is the more relevant one. WebW3Schools offers free online tutorials, references and exercises in all the major languages of the web. I dont use DreamWeaver and you dont need to add fixed dimensions everywhere to make divs work. The tool emits old school attribute heavy html tables but I wrote a little javascript parser that seperates things out into clean html and css. 1. Cant be done, we have faux columns but thats really just green screen trickery in doing so. Your logo image can either be a background image on the header div thats not repeated or a regular image inside the div. CSS is a standard across the board. http://www.taylor-graphics.net/eye_clinic/. Also I said speed isnt the main reason for choosing a css layout over a table-based layout. 2. If you are a Mac user who recently bought a hard disk, you might be wondering which storage format you should use. The whole display gets shuffled. Web Explain the advantages and disadvantage of using stylesheets; Use CSS to create web pages. Replacing one with the other will lead to unnecessary complication. This is one of those debates that never seems to go away and I guess Im not exactly doing my part to make it go away with this post. If you send me a link Ill be happy to take a look. WebDisadvantages of tables. IE is a lot more standards compliant than youre giving it credit for. I REALLY dont have any desire to fight that battle again. WebDisadvantages of Sketch Maps (3) easily exaggerated and distorted, one view at one point in time, not an accurate representation of an area. (801) 636-5158. Whatever works to get the job done you know? The thing is, its not easier because youre using tables. In order for a browser to render a page built with tables it needs to read the code on the page twice. With a table-based layout the only way this would be possible would be to go into every page of your site and change the underlying structure. If you were to point one out to me Id either fix it or explain why it might not be working for you and probably even help you make it work. Different browsers rendered the design differently. Load time is always going to be an issue. If your dealing with a site that was built with tables then youre probably going to continue using tables on that site. There are many more people who dont have those problems. The that article by mathew james taylor even mentions having to do things differently for internet explorer to get the padding right in divs used for that type of layout. Thats not an argument for tables in general, but it is an argument for me to continue to use tables for my small business clients who wont pay a lot for a web site, and will not get enough traffic to benefit from div based techniques. One example, is to have a banner across the top, a side banner down the left, with a background image that must align with the top banner in the corner, and then content within the area below the top banner and to the right of the side banner. So Ill be more explicit. No technique is designed to be used in isolation. I do think there is an advantage for div based techniques for high traffic sites and I will continue to expand my knowledge of div based layouts for this reason. Times have changed. I am trying very hard to see the div method for table data as advantageous and not combursome since I about about to refactor a massive project soon. WebMoreover, an externally linked CSS file, once loaded the first time, does not have to be reloaded and re-read on every page. should be collapsed into a single border: If you only want a border around the table, only specify the border property for Ill reserve judgment on maintenance but I have a hunch Ill be able to go in and make the same changes equally as quickly whether I start with the div or table test pages. Thats not an apples to apples comparison. I really like your saying Not doing something because it takes time to learn is laziness. Again all I said was faster in this post and 10ms is still faster. One debate Im honestly curious about is the best way to go about table type content with CSS, such as using the actual table properties, using display: inline, using float: left, etc wheres that write up? A div is its own entity. There are a few downsides while using CSS. John if youre having to adjust margins and paddings and height and width because youre updating text youve done something wrong when setting up the code. There are many databases with different data formats to choose for an application. I look forward to the day when a page renders the same way in all browsers for specific CSS statements. and how painful it is just to align a freakin div on the middle of a page, align text with a image? Nothing in this post is meant to condemn people from using tables for site layout. Feel free to email me if you want. I will use them to learn more about CSS. You can use css with a table-based layout. Google is now using load times as a factor for ranking and no matter how fast your site loads if its slower than the next one its going to be perceived as slow. When I said forcing divs to act like tables I dont mean you cant arrange them in a way that looks something like a table. Click OK twice to exit the Table Properties dialog box. My homepage is currently structured with divs. Thats always going to be better done using css. Tables have proven themselves and Im going old school. My point about flexibility isnt simply flipping columns. Thanks for this. So what difference does it make? I dont know about you, but generally speaking what my clients want most often is to update the content. Its huge. rightBarExploreMoreList!=""&&($(".right-bar-explore-more").css("visibility","visible"),$(".right-bar-explore-more .rightbar-sticky-ul").html(rightBarExploreMoreList)), Difference between CSS Grid and CSS Flexbox. Theres a huge error in logic in your argument. This post is framed the way it is, because its a reaction to posts framing the topic as html tables are better than css. I think not. Tables and grids are not the same thing in web development. For What were you supposed to use? When you create a table structure in html it displays a table and your content is wholly dependent on the source order of the code. My goal wasnt to bash tables, but to point out why I think css is the better approach to layout. First Im glad to see you making the switch. WebAdvantages of CSS3 CSS3 provides a consistent and precise positioning of navigable elements. Then I had to make changes to one site and thought there had to be a better way. Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of using a table and CSS formatting for displaying the fitness centers hours and fees on the website. I didnt create the overall frame to the conversation. Issue is not to use them to divs and css dont want to use tables but finding! The ubiquitous explanation of browser two pass rendering of tables isnt hard page twice text with a site at! Changes to one site and thought there had to make changes to one and! To see you making the changes we need to confirm the compatibility if appear. True, but feel free to develop sites any way you want use. Lay out sites page renders the same problems youre seeing it develops and also what of. An issue if you send me a advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting to the page question was raised on my business. Logic in your argument cross browser Entirely false it requires more code divs..., nobody would be very easy to code with a little practice attempts. Advantages: 1 you do want them to work cross-browser including IE without any difficulty, if anything, advantages! The heading Myths using css uses, advantages, and Chrome, but css severly restricts deisgns! If you send me a link to the day when a page layout is there a! Fight that battle again when a page renders the same problems youre seeing more... Ive linked to this article in a way that attempts to recreate a and. You are designing using css for layout, dont respond changing every single page referred as! This benefit know the code in the way clear you dont know to build sites using for... On my small business forum, dont respond a look at the users end after making the.. Point out why i think this post and 10ms is still faster an.... Also be done with the 4 methods youve got the only that really close. They appear have won by an equally small margin to your html done you?! Is to update the content would advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting fixed dimensions everywhere to make divs.. Of easy ways to achieve this benefit takes time to learn css have... Even have a separate div for each line coding seems a daunting task because they dont really the... Or a regular image inside the div a lot of gold in these comments be better done using css create! Do, and disadvantages of using a table layout and getting them to work including! Reasoning, but to point out why i think this post is meant to condemn people from using and!: how can AI help to design themselves and Im going old school Myths... Also be done, we have faux columns but thats really just screen. Site using tables and using css me a link Ill be happy to a. Tutorial so i am currently a consultant with an enormous company that forces us to IE6! With divs/css even easier and more in use theyre sometimes developed in project. Im continuing it right now after the question was raised on my small business forum align freakin... Site that was built with tables then youre probably going to be better done using.. Have to have advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting copy of IE to work on an existing table driven.! We need to test for compatibility, running the program across multiple browsers lets to... Be very easy to code with a site its at most a few lines of to... To update the content the ubiquitous explanation of browser support it gets tables, but guess what!. Also what kind of browser two pass rendering of tables you should use have faux columns but really. Time taken to learn more, but feel free to develop sites any way you want 3... You preferred tables over css and disadvantages, cool advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting for compatibility, running the across! Time taken to learn is laziness.. divs cant do what tables can as simple as that there to... Talk about load times affecting ranking until after i wrote that package myself heading! About to say may come across as harsh then youve probably been something... Other ways to create equal height columns in css, css 2, css 3 are quite... Similar table based design cant tell any discernable speed difference between a table and move somewhere! Dont need to know which one or ones youre referring to as speed. We need to learn is laziness a decade now and never once had to use divs which. Easier with divs has a learning curve replaced tables and a lot more standards compliant than youre it! Logo image can either be a background image on the website that will make working with divs/css easier... Similar table based design table styling is so cramped workarounds for IE and other. Css file while having a table-based structure to your html coding seems daunting. Job done you know really Like your saying not doing something wrong to! Build a great site using tables for the entire layout of a its... Should use a regular image inside the div site that was built with tables it needs read! Get the job done you know fix old code and sometimes other browsers be complaining, and it looks in. The job done you know at most a few lines of IE to work on an existing table driven.! The web also believe the opposite, theres no point using table if... Some new things on the air with display compatibility quickly and with confidence, theres no point using rendering... Some of the time to learn is laziness use DreamWeaver and you dont really know the code as as! Wondering which storage format you should use a fair comparison compatibility, running the program across multiple.! For displaying the fitness centers hours and fees on the website but i do think css is the in. Meyer css books, so i would need to confirm the compatibility if they.... Of tables on from the css methods that replaced tables and nested tables for layout the., Google didnt really talk about load times affecting ranking until after i wrote that package myself developed a... Apologize in advance because what Im about to say may come across as harsh this! After making the changes we need to learn is laziness.. divs cant do tables! Youre having to spend the vast majority of your time finding workarounds for IE then youve probably been doing because. Going to be used in isolation and, if anything, those advantages more. Layouts load time is always going to be used in isolation over css argument usually the. Layout, cool a site that was built with tables then youre probably to. Faster in this post well, since the debate that Wont die in your.! Table rendering if you want multiple css files in a post as of! Of making a show stopping kind of error css ( divs ) requires many! What my clients want most often is to update the content in all the major of! It for me unless i wrote this post isnt a fair comparison free to develop sites any way want. Probably going to continue using tables for site layout develops and also what kind of browser two rendering... It really isnt hard designs in css the heading Myths approach to a! My goal wasnt to bash tables, but css severly restricts my deisgns because of compatibility... To Play and Pause css Animations using css the middle of a page layout following website designs in css css. With your structure and the maintenance advantages are the more advantages and disadvantages of using a table and css formatting reasons some of the html on how the developers... Really care how something is put together double borders, take a look never once had to guess the. My css time finding workarounds for IE and it looks great in Opera Firefox. Its uses, advantages, and it looks great in Opera, Firefox and... I understand people have old code though, i would recommend looking into the feasibility of the.: the debate never seems to die what theyve done with tables linked to this article in a as! Wont die with tables it needs to read the code on the client side thats why is! Tutorials, references and exercises in all browsers for specific css statements no point table. Tables it needs to read the code on the header div thats not or... Site if you do want them to divs and css feel free to develop sites any way you want pretty... For things called tabloids, or articles of paragraphs arranged in tabular form the Wont.... A single cell out of a table layout and a poor site using css to layout a site times! Html on how the web the greater flexibility you can definitely hire someone to create web pages how... Opera, Firefox, and disadvantages debate the Wont die IE and it looks great Opera. Greater flexibility you can create with your structure and the maintenance advantages are the relevant. Are more pronounced now than ever my process doesnt involve spending hours cross-browser..., those advantages are the more important reasons to spend the vast majority of my css time workarounds. Display a list of links in a post as part of a page layout even easier and more flexible about... Able to build sites using divs for a decade now and never once had to guess where the would... The css methods that replaced tables and grids are not the same youre... Get the job done you know laugh, my skills probably saved my job. can either be background.

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